As Far as Thoughts can See

The ingrained view is: I form thoughts to reflect my views e.g. about properties of a world ‘out there’- objective reality. But there is no awareness of forming thoughts - of weaving related sights, sounds, meanings. There is no awareness of the content till the related thoughts arise - the content comes & goes with thoughts that I don’t form. They 'pop up'!

What comes & goes with thoughts that I don't form? Time: past-future; sense of self: the story of an entity restricted to a body; sense of separation of observer-observed & among the observed; sense of objective world - that things persist even when not part of experience; waking vs dreaming; existence (waking/dreaming) vs nonexistence (deep sleep); science; faith; joy-sorrow; birth-death; every question-answer; this very description etc. The whole human drama (click here for a slideshow that attempts to clarify the above)

The play of thoughts (words/symbols) - I in an objective world in time- continues after the above 'thought recognition'. Joys & sorrows continue to feel ‘real’ - till they don’t (detachment)

The above is not philosophy/speculation, nor belief. It is as obvious as the present breath - if one notices (the breath)! It is the limit of empirical + reason i.e. if thought observation of thoughts- their empirically unknowable source and their role (the difference between thought's presence & absence)- can’t be trusted, then no thought observations can be!

Summary: There's no awareness of forming thoughts. Without thoughts, there are no questions, questioner, nor anything to ask about. I-time-world come & go with thoughts I don't form!

Notes: What does science say about thoughts? They are tightly correlated with brain activity. How did brain activity arise? As part of random genetic mutations & environmental selection. What is such ‘evolution’? Like ‘gravity’, a label for pattern of changes in matter-energy over time i.e. part of the unfolding of observable universe from a hot, dense state to galaxies, stars, earth, life, brain, it’s activity this moment. But what are- that unfolding, brain activity, its relation with thoughts etc.? A story of thoughts that pop up= not thoughts I form to reflect a world ‘out there’! It comes & goes with thoughts (
I can't see your thoughts, you can't see mine; even the brightest imagined light can't trigger a photodetector = thoughts are non physical by definition! Even when 'objective world/brain' is assumed - physical properties can only derive physical phenomena, can't derive existence of non physical thoughts.)

There are two vantages (as seen from the thought vantage): thought free' and thought. The 'thought free' is a 'state in time' in the thought vantage but that vantage itself has no time e.g. the very question: ‘How do thoughts arise - what is aware of them’, a 'pop up', is the sense of time & of a self/I who wants to know i.e. when the question is absent, there is no one to ask, nothing (time!) to ask about (or to form thoughts!). Without thought reporting, there is not even happening (time) - nothing in time has existence apart from thoughts I don't form!

View from the empirical limit: thought free state- no time, no one to ask, nothing to ask about; empirical limit- presence of thoughts 'no I forms' is appearance of I-world-time, no explanation for presence of thoughts (and sensations); ingrained view- thoughts merely reflect a free I's views (I explores an objective world, finds answers)

What would make the empirical limit invalid? Direct awareness of an independent entity forming thoughts (If I intentionally forms thoughts - at least it should be sure of forming them!)